Cargo ([info]cargoweasel) wrote,
@ 2008-05-07 07:54:00
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You first, pal!

I SPEL GUD.

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[info]footpad
2008-05-07 12:18 pm UTC (link)
Jolly good idea though. Define what languages are formally used by the state, and make sure all forms and critical documents are available in them. Like the Swiss do. As soon as this chap adds "Spanish" to his sign, my only disagreement will be with his orthography. :)

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[info]ziabandito555
2008-05-07 01:56 pm UTC (link)
Well New Mexico already has in its constitution that all state created documents must be in english and spanish...

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[info]joshuwain
2008-05-07 12:23 pm UTC (link)
For clarity of communication? Good idea. For exclusion of minorities? And even better idea! We want to encourage those damn, non-native speakers with every sharp stick we can get, never mind the fact that learning a language past puberty is ludicrously difficult and -in no way- would be hampered by efforts to raise a family, work for a living, and participate -meaningfully- in your government!

Ok, sarcasm aside, I've often said that making English the offical (er, "official") language for commerce and government documents is a great idea as far as ensuring commonality of communication is concerned. All we'd have to do is provide money to train those who do not speak and/or read English to fully competent levels and that'd be fine! Then, of course, we'd still need translators and multi-lingual versions of documents for those for whom training and lessons were insufficient ... otherwise, we'd just be disenfranchising whole segments of the population.

As soon as "English Firsters" want to advocate spending tax dollars and helping all Americans speak and read and write equivalent levels of English, and not disenfranchise those who can't learn it, I'll support such a measure!

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[info]wiseacre
2008-05-07 09:59 pm UTC (link)
How many Native American languages do you speak? Yeah, I thought so. Bag your bags and be at the airport in two hours, you need to be deported.

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[info]autarchicflux
2008-05-07 10:01 pm UTC (link)
Oh, please. Thanks providing a "deeper perspective." You've blown my mind, maaaan!

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[info]wiseacre
2008-05-07 10:18 pm UTC (link)
Your command of English is weak. You misspelled "You've caught me and exposed my racism."

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[info]autarchicflux
2008-05-08 04:44 am UTC (link)
You are consistently ludicrous. Congratulations!

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[info]autarchicflux
2008-05-08 02:29 pm UTC (link)
Now that another day's gone by, just had to revisit these comments and say "thanks again" for the laughs. I mean, really - I've never in my life seen someone so convinced they have meaningful input who spouts such absurdly naive platitudes.

Duuuude! If I think people should learn the language in order to fascilitate proper communication, and I'm willing to fund ESL ventures to help them get there - I should learn NATIVE AMERICAN languages or I'm a hypocrite!

Think that's a stupid, non-sequitur argument masquerading as intelligent postmodern commentary? Guess what? You're a RACIST!

Seriously, man, you sound like an indignant 10th grader.

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[info]wiseacre
2008-05-09 02:07 am UTC (link)
Too bad you conveniently deleted your comment so no one can see the bullshit your wrote. Lying about it now won't help.

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[info]autarchicflux
2008-05-10 01:57 am UTC (link)
Run home, little boy. Your mama is calling.

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[info]cargoweasel
2008-05-10 02:42 am UTC (link)
good gravy, will both of you rope it in already/don't make me turn this car around

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[info]autarchicflux
2008-05-07 10:01 pm UTC (link)
Deleted my original post because I read yours again and realized that I more or less agree with you.

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[info]joshuwain
2008-05-08 12:13 pm UTC (link)
<nods> Basically, I just believe that having a common language for communication and documents is important and useful ... just not to the point where we put all the onus upon those who come here or who are already here. If we are to take such a massive change in policy, we need to fund it properly and still provide safety nets for those who cannot learn the language. There will always be folk who -for some reason or another- cannot learn a language and, yet, they are still just as American as I. :)

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[info]autarchicflux
2008-05-08 02:23 pm UTC (link)
I suppose I can concede that there might be a very, very small percentage of people with an IQ so low that they simply cannot acquire any new language once they are adults, though my training in language acquisition would lead me to believe this percentage would be very small indeed.

If an immigrant is absolutely incapable of learning the language, I suppose that shouldn't be enough to deny them the right of being called American - unless, of course, they are also isolating and miseducating their children to such an extent that generation #2 is also ignorant of English.

By the time your family has been here for two generations, there is absolutely no excuse.

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[info]doven
2008-05-07 01:26 pm UTC (link)
To be fair, I know some really smart people who still can't spell to save their lives... but oh well, lol Texas.

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[info]ziabandito555
2008-05-07 01:58 pm UTC (link)
Is that a man or a manish woman? I can't tell.

you are right it is pretty funny ^.^

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[info]branwyn
2008-05-07 02:09 pm UTC (link)
You know, without looking closely, I assumed "man" - but on closer inspection, my vote is definitely for "mannish woman".

B.

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[info]ziabandito555
2008-05-07 04:47 pm UTC (link)
yeah see that was my reaction... ever wonder if the USA is perhaps putting too much testosterone into our beef?

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[info]branwyn
2008-05-07 02:05 pm UTC (link)
*does some investigating* Interesting. I did not know that the US doesn't have an official language. Is that actually causing a problem? Like, is it possible that you'd be at a bank, applying for a loan or something, and suddenly you'd be handed a document to sign that was NOT in English?

Anyways, I suspect dude in the photo is really more anti-immigration-of-non-English-speakers than he is pro-English-as-the-official-language - but, whatever. The pic is pretty win, anyway. ;)

B.

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[info]branwyn
2008-05-07 02:20 pm UTC (link)
Interestingly, at least here in Toronto (which is a very multi-cultural and multi-lingual city), the languages offered in any particular area are tailored to the population in that area - no one offers services in Tagalog or Portugese or Mandarin because the government says they have to, they do so because it means more business for them! If you owned a business in one of the many Chinatowns, and didn't offer services in Chinese (and probably several other languages), you'd be out of business in weeks!

I'd expect that sort of capitalism-driven free enterprise would be right up the US's alley? Shouting for more government regulation seems somewhat out-of-character.

B.

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[info]srakkt
2008-05-07 02:28 pm UTC (link)
That's also common in the US. Within a short walk of my home, I can find signage in Portugese, Spanish, Chinese and Korean.

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[info]ziabandito555
2008-05-07 04:08 pm UTC (link)
Well keep in mind individual states, counties and municipalities can declare themselves multi-lingual so it does vary despite the federal government's silence.

New Mexico for instance entered the United States in 1912. Its ratified constitution upon entry included the declaration of two official languages: Spanish and English. Meaning all official documents, state funded exercises etc. must be available in English and Spanish. this does not mean individual private groups or institutions must comply but they'd miss out on customers if they didn't so they often do as well.

Keep in mind that in 1910 (when New Mexico and Arizona applies for entry as official states) this caused a major storm of protest and argument on the floors of congress and more then a few speeches about declaring english the official language. Arizona which entered in 1910 came through without a problem. New Mexico had to wait two years and fight for its right to declare itself bilingual.

Most official and personal business in the USA is conducted in english but it can vary. There are some towns in the country that speak primarily yiddish, or deutsch, or spanish, or even arabic (Michigan) and conduct all business in those languages.

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[info]kevinjdog
2008-05-07 02:14 pm UTC (link)
Make English America's "offal" language. It's da s**t.

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[info]branwyn
2008-05-07 02:21 pm UTC (link)
That's actually the first thing that went through my head. :)

B.

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[info]yotie
2008-05-07 03:52 pm UTC (link)
What do you call someone that speaks two languages!? Bilingual.
What do you call someone that speaks one language? American.

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[info]dook
2008-05-07 05:39 pm UTC (link)
*facepalms and shakes his head* Oie...

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[info]peristaltor
2008-05-07 07:01 pm UTC (link)
Yes, that should read "o'fecal."

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[info]duskwuff
2008-05-07 09:14 pm UTC (link)
Your wish is my command!

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[info]peristaltor
2008-05-08 01:51 am UTC (link)
O'fecal?

I'm Irish, you see. ;-)

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[info]duskwuff
2008-05-08 03:19 am UTC (link)
O'fine.

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[info]peristaltor
2008-05-08 06:09 pm UTC (link)
clapclapclapclapclapclap!

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[info]doodlesthegreat
2008-05-07 07:18 pm UTC (link)
That sign is just awffical.

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[info]tamarik
2008-05-07 08:54 pm UTC (link)
I thought that English and French were the US's "official" languages... kinda of a nod to France from waaaaay back when.

Ah well... I've seen worse signs. "Get A Brain MORAN".

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A red herring
[info]wiseacre
2008-05-07 10:15 pm UTC (link)
Whenever someone in the USA talks about making English the official language, it is veiled racist, anti-immigrant sentiment they are expressing. Canada has two official languages, English and French, yet you can still find many government-issued documents in other languages, as the government realizes it has a responsibility to communicate important information with residents. Doing that in languages in which they are fluent ensures the message gets across.
Japan has one official language, Japanese, yet goverment forms are available in various languages to assist foreign residents. Road signs and train station signage feature Roman letters. Official languages do not mean a refusal to provide assistance to people who need it, which is what these type of people really want.

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[info]kitncub
2008-05-07 11:18 pm UTC (link)
States are free to do this if they wish (and some have) but I'm not really sure what it means legally. I'm sure this isn't the intent here, but morally it seems like if you're going to have an "official" language, then you have a good-faith obligation to provide free ESL education to whoever wants it...

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[info]furlock_the_666
2008-05-08 05:16 am UTC (link)
Mr. Bigglesworth is mad. And when Mr. Bigglesworth gets mad people DIE!

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[info]branson825
2008-05-10 03:19 pm UTC (link)
OMG!

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